The Rise of Patient Experience Department in India

Is your hospital considering to set up a separate patient experience department? Or do you want to improve the efficiency of your current PX department? Find out all the details of the working, challenges and business impact of the patient experience department.

Part 1: Processes and Workings of the PX Department


Dilesh Dattani: Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this webinar, which is the fourth one in our series of webinars on patient experience. Today, we have with us two distinguished guests. I would introduce you to them. 

The first person whom we have here is Archna Gupta, who has more than 25 years of experience in service excellence. After more than 16 years of driving quality function at the Indian Hotel Company, where she oversaw the quality function for about 21 hotels spread across three regions, she moved on to the healthcare sector. 

Since then, Ms. Gupta has led patient experience departments at respected brands like Manipal Hospitals and Fortis Healthcare. Presently she’s working as Group Head, Patient Experience at

CK Birla Hospitals, and she’s based out of Kolkata.

Welcome, Ms. Gupta. 

Archna Gupta: Thank you very much.

Dilesh Dattani: The next panelist we have is Ms. Archana Sangam. She has nearly two decades of experience in operations and customer service across industries, such as banking, retail, and now healthcare. She’s worked with brands like Bata, Religare, Metlife, and Kotak Mahindra. Currently, Ms. Sangam is the Head of Customer Experience and CRM at Motherhood 

Hospitals, and she’s based out of Bengaluru. 

Welcome, Ms. Sangam.

Archana Sangam: Thank you.

What is Patient Experience?

Dilesh Dattani: Moving on, as you all know, our focus for today’s webinar is the rise of the patient experience department in India. I would like to start off Ms. Sangam, your views on what patient experience is all about?

Archana Sangam: 

With the current scenario, patient experience is something, which is very important and the key focus in driving the healthcare business from the business perspective. And from the customer perspective, it’s the defining parameter when they avail their healthcare services. So that department is definitely the back end and the front end, the face and the department which is holding the organization. 

Obviously, the experience starts from the customers’ thought of availing medical care, looking out for the brands. Different departments are involved there. But anything and everything that happens throughout the journey from exploring to experiencing comes under the gamut of patient experience. That’s my take on it. 

Dilesh Dattani: Great. How about you, Ms. Gupta? What is your take on patient experience?

Archna Gupta: Yeah, it’s almost similar.

It’s (patient experience) is the sum total of all the experience at every touch point for what the patient is coming to the hospital than just consumption of the product or the services that he’s come for. 

For example, if he’s come for the outpatient consultation, so it is not just about, you know start and finish doesn’t start at meeting the doctor and finish doesn’t finish it there. It starts from may be from his home when he tries to book the appointment either through by calling up or by you know searching on the website to coming to the hospital premises to including parking, how easy was it for him to park his car or get navigated to the concerned OPD. All that is a part of patient experience while he is waiting, what is his waiting experience, everything.

The Current Landscape of Patient Experience in India

Dilesh Dattani: Great. Now, Ms. Gupta, if you can throw some light on how patient experience as a department is shaping up in the current healthcare organisation and in your organization as such, that would be really helpful.

Archna Gupta: Yeah, I’ve been in healthcare for the last, more than eight years, and I can see that they have primarily been, you know, inclined towards clinical outcomes or P&L reviews, but now the fact that slowly I’ve seen at all the organizations I’ve worked with, including Manipal,  including Fortis, and now CK Birla, this function was instituted or it was started from scratch at every place I went to. And they are holding a lot of importance to the function. And this has been driven by the promoters themselves.  

Like, currently my promoters, they themselves worked on the pilot at the Gurgaon hospital and saw a big difference. Even without a star doctor, the patient was still coming from far-flung areas. They have a firm belief in this (patient experience) function, and hence they’ve instituted this function across the hospital to change the way it is perceived.

The Roles and Responsibilities Handled by the Patient Experience Department

Dilesh Dattani: Great, what about you Ms. Sangam, how is it shaping up at Motherhood Hospitals, this particular department and what are the roles and responsibilities they handle?

Archana Sangam: I mean I have a very shorter experience in healthcare, but the way, I have seen in the last three and half, four years of my healthcare experience is that the transition has been swift, drift and very strong. 

So earlier it was the front office, it was the billing department, and now they (the patient experience department) are almost the custodian of anything and everything that the customer has to go through. So, that’s the drastic change in the way they have shaped up in terms of the patient experience department.

Talking about roles and responsibilities, as we started the conversation with, be it a remote interaction which is through a call or an email or the way we respond to the customers starting from there to the physical interactions to the financial and financial counseling right, even to an extent of being able to clarify what is the clinical terminologies. So that’s the level they have engrossed into.

They also cover up the non-medical operations aspects of it like Ms. Gupta was explaining, be it the security way, the valet parking, be it the housekeeping at the IPD department right. so this department has engrossed into every other sub department, taking ownership there. And hence the responsibilities are of overall hospital and the overall experience management. They touch base every other department.

The Challenges Faced by the Patient Experience Department

Dilesh Dattani: Great. So, Ms Gupta coming back to you on some of the challenges you have faced in this particular department of patient experience wherever you have instituted it and how you’ve overcome those challenges?

Archna Gupta: The challenges, you know, primarily, when I entered healthcare that was way back in 2013, they all felt that I come from Taj – that happens in Taj and hotels, it doesn’t in the hospitals. Before I started talking to them, I had done a recce of all the key hospitals in India itself and outside. And I took pictures of those hospitals, like you know FMRI in Gurgaon, Max Saket and Mohali, and went till there.

And I started showing pictures of the hospital and then they started listening to me, so that’s the first challenge which I think anyone comes from non-healthcare background faces. The second challenge is you know, it is a challenge because they have been tuned to only manage patient complaints, not really work from the root cause and eliminate them. And I think a bigger challenge is that they believe that the patients are coming for their diagnostics and if the doctor meets them, if the nurses take care, what else?

Why would you bring out subjects like food and beverage, why would you talk about housekeeping, that’s not our core. So you know bringing to light to the senior leadership level that even this is important from the patient’s perspective and can be a decision-maker in their mind to choose which hospital to go to, that was a challenge at the beginning.

But I guess over time with the rhythm of review cadence and the buy-in from the top management, it was taken over. I mean we kind of brought light to the fact that all these matters also – whatever matters to patients, should matter to us.

Dilesh Dattani: Thanks. How about you Ms. Sangam?

Archana Sangam: So I see the challenges in two aspects. One is with the attitude of the approach, which has obviously built over years through the situations and through the environment that they have been surviving there. So at the end of the day they always have this – I mean they are trying to overcome, but yeah this approach of okay, whatever we do finally what happens with the doctor, what happens with the nurse – there are certain other forces because of which whatever we do, it’s not going to work out. And we end up only handling the crisis, we end up only handling the situation, so that attitude, which is built in over the years, is something that needs to be curbed down, slowly empowering them. And that’s one clear challenge that they come out of that attitude and that approach.

The second one is obviously now as the department is gaining a lot of importance, there is a real focus in terms of providing the right resources, the right amount of resources, the right tools for them. However, we are still in the nascent phase.

This comes still at the lower stage of the ladder when the budgets are getting approved and things like that, right. So giving that ample resource thinking that human touch and that department and those people are really important rather than quantifying the time motion (ph) return to that is another thing that needs to be looked at for this department.

Dilesh Dattani: Interesting, interesting. Gone are the days I think where people used to take patients for granted that if these doctors are there patients would definitely come. Now it’s changing, interesting.

Part 2: The Transformation of Patient Experience

The Evolution and Transformation of the Patient Experience Department

Moving on, I’ll go to Ms. Gupta. Over the years, Ms. Gupta, the transformation of this patient experience department has been quite significant more so I think after COVID it has become much more faster. Can you explain what you have seen as the evolution of this department and the transformation, which is just going through currently.

Archna Gupta: I would say this transformation has started way back. As she rightly said, the budgeting and when the budgeting would happen, a lot of the budget would go into patient acquisition yeah. But very little focus and very little would happen for patient retention. So I see myself and patient experience is more to do with patient retention as such – whatever we do. When COVID came, yes a significant change happened in terms of digital adoption, I mean everything had to be contactless, and all that so that – the teleconsultation bit, you know all that which was restricted and limited had opened up the gates for digital adoption. But, yeah I mean the initiatives changed but the transformation journey had started before that. The initiatives became more digital. So the certain initiatives that we took up, was of course video consultation across the hospitals, the chatbot would also answer a lot of questions before you come to book an appointment viz-a-viz calling up the patients. And you know the registration online and so on and so forth a lot of things, the speech to text and voice text, and whatever you call it. 

Dilesh Dattani: Yeah yeah, technology is getting in and driving the transformation.

Archna Gupta: That became everyone’s priority, and not pushed. 

Archana Sangam: In a way they were looked as a little aspirational when we spoke about it. But COVID helped them to bring it to the limelight, and say that yeah these are essentials.

The Process for Launching New Patient Experience Initiatives

Dilesh Dattani: Yeah. Ms. Sangam, how do you see the decision-making process for new initiatives, which are driven by the patient experience department? What kind of a process is followed in hospitals before taking up initiatives in this area?

Archana Sangam: Yeah, so now with a lot of clarity as to what can be an expected experience and how are the consumers changing, what the consumers are expecting and the availability of technology,  availability of resources, knowledge and all, so the decision-making process to start any initiative is very clearly defined. I don’t see a real difficulty or be – making it very tough to convince people, convince management, convince the stakeholders in explaining that there is a need for such an initiative, right. 

Organizations – especially the one that I work for (Motherhood) they are really very open in terms of understanding that yes this can make an impact and open to experiment. So that is an ease that definitely is there, understanding of the need of these initiatives. But yes, it definitely demands a very clear thought process, a very clear implementation strategy, clear benefits or the returns out of it – I mean the results. So that vision and that clarity is expected. While it might take a longer time, it might not be quantifiable, but there has to be clarity in terms of what are we trying to bring out over here. Since there are tools that can be used to a certain level as measurements, so I think this decision making in terms of any new initiatives is not that difficult now, that’s what I feel.

Dilesh Dattani: What’s your take on this, Ms. Gupta?

Archna Gupta: Yeah, I completely agree with it. I think a) every company wants to be relevant, so as per the changing customer requirements. If another hospital has it, we better have it. 

Second is, also we now have a very robust customer feedback system and one is able to cull out one of the top ten or top three requirements that the patient is already talking about, and then we can cull out what is the initiative required to address those. 

And every initiative, as we rightly said, is passed through before you launch it, the lenses of people, process and technology. And I add a fourth element to it – look, touch, feel, and spend. 

So aesthetic look also – I mean how does it work for the patient when they come in, does that delight their senses. You know that the fourth angle is also looked into, and then the initiative is launched. It is not just the technology bit, the entire people, training required, process reengineering required, everything is looked into to complete the initiative, and mapped to the end user – not just as a checklist is implemented – is the end user getting the desired result. And is it user friendly for the caregiver at this end to adopt the technology.

Measuring the Non-Tangible Benefit of Patient Experience

Dilesh Dattani: Interesting. On the same lines Ms. Gupta, how do you kind of measure the non-tangible benefits, which come out of these patient experience initiatives? How do you tell or convince people with the non-tangible benefits, because it’s always difficult to measure certain benefits. 

Archna Gupta: Very difficult. I mean one can’t attribute everything to the NPS or the PSAT score. And in today’s time we are not able to really measure the repeat customers, you know, if you are coming post this initiative because there are so many things to it.  Or the customer’s lost, we were never measuring the customers lost because of that vis-a-vis customers gained today. 

So non-tangible is how do i say if we had a centralized call center appointment helpline, measurable would be what is increase in the appointments number vis-a-vis walk-ins, what is the PSAT (ph), but non-measurable would be when you do audits, how well it was taken, what kind of warmth was there, did they resolve the queries you know properly, those things are measured internally. And the google rating, the compliments, those are the things.

Dilesh Dattani: Social media, right. Interesting.

Change Management Challenges in New Patient Experience Initiatives

Dilesh Dattani: Moving on, Ms. Sangam, what kind of change management challenges do you face while launching new initiatives in the patient experience department. 

Archana Sangam: There are no challenges as such, but yes because of late, the department itself – I mean even the staff – a guest relations executive or a manager have understood that this swiftness, this newness is something that’s going to be continuous. And hence they’re already in a mindset in a frame that yes there will be something new that will happen regularly, and it might not be only related to my specific area of work. It can be a finance-led thing like a cashless payment, it can be a technology-driven, Like implementation of EMR, right electronic medical records which is more relevant to the doctors but I will be a catalyst in terms of getting it implemented, ensuring that it is smoothly done. If the doctors are facing concern that then it affects my customers. So they have understood that entire game of these new initiatives that will keep on happening frequently. 

But, yes, there is a little difficulty in change management with people who completely own up P&L (ph). So getting their attention to this into a detailed level to the t of implementation, to get their feedback, to make them get involved into it, so that they tell us that what more can be done or how it can be done better. This usually happens at a later stage when they come back after some time and then say that oh see we missed sharing this, this could have been done. So that’s something that I feel that’s one small area which – that lack of involvement that happens from the initiator to the implementer in between there are those two levels who need to be more involved. 

Dilesh Dattani: What about the employee behavioral change which you have to get done?

Archana Sangam: Yeah. So as I mentioned that nowadays I think everyone is tuned to these changes. They know it is inevitable, and I have to accept this. Certain times, there will be certain will issues, but I think the rigorous amount of trainings that we do, the hand holding that we do, the service culture that is getting driven within the organization helps manage that.

Dilesh Dattani: How about you Ms. Gupta? What’s your take on change management?

Archna Gupta: I’ll have a slightly different view on this change management. The first hurdle is a operation head or the unit head who has a P&L to manage and mostly our initiatives you know are going to bombard his cost, so there is a resistance there. And so there has to be a balance and one has a lot of you know internal marketing, internal convincing has to happen, why this initiative has to be rolled out or needs it? Unless he approves of it, his team will also not support. So that’s the first challenge, and once that hurdle is removed, the second would be a little minor. Once the unit head agrees to it, the team of course there’s always – for any new initiative, there’s some resistance from the way they have been working and now we ask them to change in the way they are doing now. There will be some resistance, but if you have an appropriate reward and recognition, and an appropriate audit system in place, both hand-in-hand, with hand-holding and training, they also see pride when things improve.

Dilesh Dattani: That’s great. Is there a fear that technology would take over the jobs, that kind of a challenge?

Archna Gupta: No, I won’t say that. I haven’t seen the fear it’s just about – as I said, no it’s not just about technology adoption, but also process tweaking happens. See they have been doing a certain process a certain way, and they have to kind of change the behavior, there’s a behavioral change expected, some training is given. So that’s very normal and natural for any new initiative and can never be ruled out. Some resistance is there. 

And technology in fact helps them with what we’ve seen. I mean it really has helped them from what they have been doing thus far. It’s just about little change and hand holding and the excitement. And the leaders need to also excite them continuously, not just you know this department.

Dilesh Dattani: Yeah, it helps improve their efficiency, their productivity and everything.

Time Horizon for New Patient Experience Initiatives

Dilesh Dattani: What is the typical time horizon you look at when you have to implement new initiatives in patient experience? Are there you know any kind of guiding principles there?

Archana Sangam: I mean definitely, every initiative has – it starts with having a mindset having the clarity on what would be the time horizon. However, the last mile impact that we get to see this on the face of the customer or in the words of the customer, that will definitely take time. We are very cautious about it. So the approach is always going step-by-step in terms of how much time do we take to have clarity in terms of what the process is. So there is a defined timeline, implementation, the training, the first initiative, the first report or the first activity to happen. So those times are clearly defined based on the initiative. But, yes the final – the end customer, that experience and getting a response on that would depend on the type of initiative

Dilesh Dattani: It can be from a few months to maybe a year as well right.

Archana Sangam: Yes, yes. However, if there is anything that can go longer, then those hurdles and those in between steps are clearly defined that this is the timeline for each of these steps.

Dilesh Dattani: And you keep milestones and measure against them. What has been your experience, Ms. Gupta, for time horizon for patient experience initiatives?

Archna Gupta: I guess thankfully in each of these organizations I have not been – unlike the marketing team we’ve not been – I don’t know about Archana Sangam, but we’ve not been badgered by those deadlines to complete the initiative. So I have been able to do the pilot study in one unit. Whenever I roll out an initiative, I do a pilot. In that pilot, I take a lot of time to trash out all kinds of queries and all kindS of troubleshooting, whatever has to be done. And then phase-wise roll out, and of course there’s a phase-wise roll out of milestones also, so then it becomes easy. And I’ve seen that typically a pilot takes two to three months, and then rollout doesn’t take so much time across the hospitals. 

And of course, there’s a continuous improvement in a phase-wise manner for the same initiative. For example, if I had to have a call center, as I said a centralised appointment helpline pan India at Manipal, you do a phase wise for a certain experience, then you take up outbound calls, and you take up inbound calls and so on and so forth. 

Dilesh Dattani: And geographically as well.

Part 3: The Business Impact of Patient Experience

Patient Experience as a Driver for Business

Dilesh Dattani: Now, we’ve gone through this transformation of patient experience, and now coming to the business aspect of this patient experience, what do you think of patient experience as a driver for business, either for you know a top line increase or a bottom line impact. How do you see patient experience impacting these?

Archna Gupta: So you’re asking this question to whom? So I’ll take it up. 

It helps in both (top line and bottom line), a lot in the top line. Because, when I see the patient experience initiatives, it’s not just about improving the productivity, improving the process improvement, but it’s also working on perception of the patients or building relationships.

They both go hand in hand for removing the glitches at every touch point, plus you are connecting with them also. In our team, there’s a layer which interacts with them, gives them undivided attention, resolves their queries, resolves their issues, and become the go-to person for the next time, whatever requirement they have. So it impacts both revenues and process – both big time

Dilesh Dattani: What’s your take on it Ms. Sangam?

Archana Sangam: Yeah, absolutely. I mean there is no question on that. 

Starting from the very basics of data captures, customer information capture, which is a huge source in terms of any further things, any further activities, any further initiatives, product designing, anything and everything starts from there (the patient experience department). 

So, that’s just the basics of it. So apart from that, yeah there are referrals based on the experience, so there are multiple things which the patient experience department or the initiative contributes towards revenues. 

And yes, as we tune the processes further, include technology aspects and all, as we fine-tune the processes and make them further, definitely helps in reducing costs also. That’s another definite aspect of any department that should be looked at.

Proving the ROI of Patient Experience

Dilesh Dattani: Ms. Sangam, do you have to prove these returns before you take up such initiatives, like calculation of ROI, presenting a business case and things like that?

Archana Sangam: Yeah, absolutely yes, at this stage. Maybe in earlier years that was not needed, it was an easy escape but there is no escape now. Every initiative – be it starting from a training right, if you have your financial counselors in your patient experience team and you want to invest in training them, right. So that also definitely goes through as to how is the efficiency going to increase, how with the addition or change or improvisation in your CRM application, which will help deliver customer experience, and how it will result in what sort of returns. So every every aspect of it goes through proving the ROI. Certain times it’s not hardcore, certain times it’s not time mandated, but yes the the end result is expected.

Dilesh Dattani: Ms Gupta, how have you seen these ROI discussions whenever you have put these initiatives in front of management?

Archna Gupta: I would say because each time as I said, this function has been top driven, this function was instituted because the top leaders were wanting it. And hence I really didn’t have to – I had to give a very rough ROI. You really cannot, because unless you’ve seen it on the ground. So when I came to CK Birla Hospitals, obviously I had past, historical cases of success factors at Manipal and Fortis. But when I joined Manipal, I didn’t have any. So a top-driven approach where they were convinced that these are required helped a lot in initiating a lot of things, and there was a lot of free freedom given to go ahead with those initiatives. Of course as I said, a rough sketch of ROI. And later on, we kept tracking as to what is the ROI, what exactly are we getting out of it and to sustain the results there has to be a checking balance mechanism in place. So, personally feeling, you know I didn’t really – I didn’t have to really really work on that so much. I mean a little sketch is enough.

Patient Experience as a Differentiating Factor for Healthcare Brands

Dilesh Dattani: Great. Ms. Gupta, off late as you’re seeing the patient experience department is getting focus and more and more hospitals are getting into this. What are your views on using patient experience as a differentiating factor?

Archna Gupta: Of course, that is the only reason why we exist, I guess, because it’s a differentiating factor. So I think, the journey first starts with cleaning up the gaps in our processes at various touch points, and comes to a standard level. That also takes a long time especially in non clinical areas. I mean people were not really looking at, as I said, food and beverage or were not looking at housekeeping or parking and all that too. Now they are getting sensitized.

The second step would be check the competition in your landscape, what are they offering, and how are you different from them, so the journey goes on. That’s the main goal.

Dilesh Dattani: Do you use it in your marketing campaigns as well?

Archna Gupta: Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Dilesh Dattani: How about you Ms. Sangam?

Archana Sangam: Yeah, I think that’s the toughest question that you have asked, which keeps on coming back to us right. One yes, as Ms. Gupta said, correcting the processes, setting up the standard there itself takes time, and then when we start sustaining it is when we also see that the competition is almost similar. And in our industry it’s so neck-to-neck with respect to the service experience, the service deliverables and all. So every time to come back with something different, and not just keep on talking that yes we give the best service, we give you personalized, we call you by your name, that doesn’t really go long, right. So that’s a difficult task there to have a service experience as a differentiator. But yes, the strive is always there and we keep on working on that, keep on adding features, while features are more relevant to products, but the way we handle the customers, the entire interaction, the experience.

Improving the Patient Experience: Learnings from Other Industries

Dilesh Dattani: So,right now we are towards the end of this webinar, and the final question would be about learnings from other industries, and how that is getting into your patient experience departments? We’ll start with Ms. Gupta first.

Archna Gupta: Well I was hired because I was from industry. I was with Taj and Taj is known for its customer centricity. And the way things work in Taj, I think they hired me to bring in some of the rigors which were there to drive customer centricity. And I shamelessly copy from other industries. It need not stop at Taj, it can be the banking industry, it can be the retail industry, whatever they are doing. 

And basically start having a dialogue with the senior management as to what the customer expectation is. 

It’s a simple thing if they give a phone call to us versus a bank, customers don’t compare us with another health care provider, they compare us with banks or industries which are the best for customer service. So we can’t be comparing ourselves with another health care and be happy. We have to move our bar and be the best in the service industry, be it airlines or whatever.

I mean things like you’re talking about things like now ATM facility is available 24×7, why not doctor services and that’s how it’s shaping up. In big hospitals, the evening or a Sunday outpatient consultations thing has started, but we are still not 24×7 in hospitals but the concept is shaping up, right which is you know taken from other industries. 

Dilesh Dattani: Yeah, the airline industry for instance, they’ve got these check-in kiosks at the airport. Why can’t we have kiosks at hospitals, right?

Archana Sangam: Absolutely. 

Archna Gupta: In fact, for admissions I was listening to Saurabh Lall the other day from Max, they have started taking a web check-in kind of admission, we are also looking at how to do it. 

Dilesh Dattani: How about you Ms. Sangam.

Archana Sangam: I completely resonate with Ms. Gupta. In fact, the same way as she started, I was also hired from a different industry from retail with the thought of changing customer expectations to be more retail behavior, the window shopping, the options that they have to look out for decisioning. So from that perspective when I joined the mandate was very clear right – automate, centralised as much as possible so that at the hospital the experience is only direct between the two people standing there. And they don’t get into any back-end sort of work of handling calls or making reports or all those things, implementation of CRM, so these which can give an e-commerce level of experience even when the customer just interacts with us to seek information, to seek clarity, and things like that. So these are a lot of lessons that we have learnt and implemented here from a retail aspect definitely, right. 

Hospitality and hotels – the learning from them is never ending. They are at their best and we keep again copying them and taking lessons from them, very clearly, right.

And one of the recent ones is (BestDoc’s) IP Concierge services, right so that’s something that we have just started. Maybe we are late but yeah that’s something that we were aspiring always, and we immediately took it up as we saw the option.

The Future of Patient Experience 

Dilesh Dattani: Great, one final take, Ms. Gupta, on the future of patient experience, so what are your thoughts on that and then Ms. Sangam, you can also give some points on the future of the patient experience department per se. Let’s start with you Ms. Gupta. 

Archna Gupta: The future is – patient experience is all about looking at customer requirement – current and future, with changing requirements what would it be. If this department cannot predict what are these requirements and align you know organization towards it, and help in identifying the differentiating factor, then I am sorry it’s not doing justice to the department.

Dilesh Dattani: Your take, Ms. Sangam. 

Archana Sangam: I think they are going to be – after being the face, now they are going to be the eyes of the organization giving a lot of visibility as to how the patients are going to do what they are going to do, are they really going to come back or not, right. So that predictability, that pipeline is also something that’s coming to the patient experience department. 

They’re getting empowered, they are going towards become revenue contributors, also now they are no more any cost center or the back support system. If nurtured well and empowered well they can be the biggest asset for any healthcare organization. 

Dilesh Dattani: Great. Thanks a lot for your time. Thanks, it was wonderful talking to you during this webinar series. Thank you.

Archna Gupta: Thank you 

Archana Sangam: Thank you so much.